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Heart First Leadership
Welcome to Heart First Leadership, the podcast that explores a revolutionary approach to leadership. In a world that often prioritizes success above all else, it's easy to find ourselves leading from a space of fear, doubt, and unworthiness. There is a new way!
Join me, your host Ryan Sawyer, and my co-host and wife, Heidi Sawyer, on a transformative journey as we seek to inspire and guide leaders, parents, and athletes to unlock the secrets to a truly fulfilling life—one that resonates from the heart. In Heart First, we challenge the conventional norms and embark on a voyage together, where heart-driven leadership becomes the compass for a life well lived.
Are you ready to redefine where you lead from? Let's dive into meaningful conversations, insights, and practical tips that will empower you to embrace a new paradigm of leadership.
Heart First Leadership
The Unbreakable Spirit of a Gridiron Titan: Interview with Samson Ebukam
Introducing Samson Ebukam. He is from Portland WA, and played at EWU where he excelled and reached All-American honors. He was drafted in the 4th round by the Rams in 2017 and now plays Defensive End for the Colts. He had a breakout year with 9.5 sacks. Enjoy learning from his wisdom. In this podcast Samson talks about the rigorous demands of professional sports, demanding a temple-like dedication to maintaining one's physical and mental fortitude. Our heartfelt exchange sheds light on the disciplined nature of success. Moreover, it underscores the symbiosis between faith and action, highlighting the essential nature of preparation to grasp the opportunities life presents, a lesson that extends far beyond the chalk-lined battlegrounds of the NFL.
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Awesome. Welcome back to the show team. I am excited to be here with you, samson. It's been a long time since I have seen your face or heard your voice. So just, man, really excited for you to be here and spend a few minutes to connect with you and for my audience here on our podcast to get a chance to get to know you a little bit and to hear your story. And I mean just even in a little bit of preparation to have this conversation, I wrote down a few stories that we have, that we share, that go way back. You know what I mean. But we'll see if they pop up or not. But we'd love to thank you for being here, man. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no problem at all.
Speaker 1:So let's just do a quick little like span back and let you tell your story a little bit, and whatever part of your story you'd like to tell, of growing up and getting to a spot where you gave yourself an opportunity to chase your dreams, to really hone in your skills and to be on this daily pursuit of reaching your potential. So just take us back to wherever your mind lands of what part of the story you'd like to share.
Speaker 2:Do I start from the beginning or do I get to the part? Pretty well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, start, just go back a little bit and then you just tell us a few details so people get to know you a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well, right now play for the Colts. So I'm going to end a field. But my whole football journey started in middle school, eighth grade. Yeah, eighth grade I was playing a little bit, didn't know how to tackle or anything like that, just wanted to be able to hit people. Because I was kind of like an aggressive person. Just based on how I grew up Kind of just made me aggressive in that type of way and I was playing always playing soccer. But I got like a little bit too big so I kept on getting like yellow cars and red cars and getting thrown out and stuff. So yeah, I just I was like you know what, screw it. They've been trying to recruit me for football for a minute now. So decided to pick it up.
Speaker 2:Didn't know what I was doing and I think the first tackling drill I kind of jumped on somebody's back or something like that and they got like he got like run through them like bro, I don't even know what I'm doing, but screw it and the car from there. And, yeah, first actual contact. That I did the right way. I just kind of ran through somebody because it was like one of those LSU drills, you know. So I just ran through somebody because I was on the defensive side and they had the ball. So I was like man, this is cool, I get to hit people. So yeah, I just kind of did that eighth grade and then came into high school and started playing running back some because I was like man, I want the ball, but I don't always want to be the person hitting somebody. I want to be able to score because it looks cool, you know. So I started playing a little running back. I was pretty good at it, but definitely better at defense, obviously Never played any other defensive position other than defensive, and so that's just in my blood. You know what I'm saying. And yeah, I played tack, I played a tailback and I played tight end and a little bit of fullback, depending on what it was that we were doing at the time.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I just kind of did all that my whole four years in high school and didn't really get recruited because I was too small for defensive and not really elite speed for running back, like I ran a 4-4, but they weren't. They were like that's not like elite speed because I had long strides and stuff. I'm like bro, I ran a 10-9 in high school. I'm pretty sure I got decent speed to pull away from some folks and I know I'm strong. So I kind of journeyed that way and I was too broke to pay for camps. So I ended up getting recruited in one camp and, lo and behold, it's Eastern Washington. That's in that camp, you know, and I did pretty good in that camp, got some recognition and, yeah, that's kind of one reason I decided to go to Eastern Washington.
Speaker 2:I only got the what's it called. I only got scholarships from Portland State and Eastern coming out, you on it. But they said I was too small so they can't really do anything. Maybe like I walk on or something like that. I'm like I can't do, walk on, I'm too. I'm just not going to make that. So you offer me a four-eyed scholarship man. I'm Adios Amiga, I'm there, you know. So, yeah, eastern Washington offered me.
Speaker 2:I went there on a visit. I was supposed to visit Portland State the weekend after and I was like, yeah, now I'm not going to go to Portland State, I'm going to go to Eastern. For sure, wanted to get away from the family a little bit and just find my own way, because it's very controlled environment here with the family. So, yeah, I just wanted to get away and just find my own way and you know that's why I decided to go to Eastern Washington and, lo and behold, my coach is going to be a nut job. Well, yeah, you know it was a shocking experience for sure, but I wasn't really too mad at it because of how I grew up. He was a fiery coach.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying all these like cussing at you, cussing with you, laughing with you, all that other jazz. You know what I'm saying. And five, four, ten years into the future, and here we are having a nice as college. You know what I'm saying. And so many things change. You know what I'm saying. So I'm glad that I had you as a coach, for sure, because it definitely prepared me for what I needed to be able to do. And life, you know, because now, like nothing, really nothing in NFL is really like Too hard, because it was already hard in in college. You know I'm saying like no coach is going to really yell at me now and I'm like, bro, I'm not even worried about you. Like I have my, my dad was yelling at me growing up and then, like I had my college coach, which is you, I ain't in all that stuff. So I'm like I'm very well disciplined, so yeah, all these things, and I'm just like I just kind of just brush it off. I'm just like, bro, it's nothing, you know so it was all.
Speaker 1:It was all done out of love and and seeing what your potential was. So I have a, I have a. I have a fun story for you when you were a junior, when I first saw your film and Coach Hill had brought me your film, I watched it and watched it I don't know, maybe I don't know 12 to 15 clips and I said you're wasting your time recruiting this kid. He'll have seven or eight offers. And I don't know if I ever told you this story or not. But then, about week four, week five of your senior season, coach Hill came back to me and said hey, you remember Samson from David Douglas? I said, yeah, yeah, how many offices he had. He has one. I said who is Portland State? I said get him on the phone. I was like, oh no, no, we're not, we're not going to let him go to Portland State man. So that's why we got you up on an offer before we get on a visit, before they got a chance to get you on campus, man, to make sure that we were had the bless with your, with your talents, being an eagle man. So that was I saw from day one not everybody else saw it, maybe a little under size, but there was something there, there was an X factor. So, man, we just that was a. That was a fun little part of the story. So talk to me, man, there's something naturally in born with you when it comes to just a level of consistency I would love for you to just you know a lot of.
Speaker 1:I heard I had a conversation that day with an athlete that I'm working with and he has big goals to want to play in the NFL and he kind of made a comment that said, well, you know, when I make it, when I get there, and I'm like, yeah, when you get there, that's when the work's really going to start right. You know what I mean. And now here you are, years later, into your, into your career. You know, obviously had a few stops along the way and had an excellent year this year, full time starter, and we just what, what has it looked like on a day in and day out basis? Like just what is your overall daily mindset to get you from? You know, a young man that was, quote unquote, under recruited, undersized, to now here you are, years later, really truly establish yourself in the NFL as a force. What is on a daily basis?
Speaker 2:What it looks like in a daily basis From mindset from mindset perspective. Yeah, I don't know if I can. I test on this.
Speaker 1:That'd be fine. That'd be fine.
Speaker 2:Honestly, the real work does start once you're in a league, because there's no more school. Now You're a full grown adult. You have all the responsibilities. You know what I'm saying. You can just replace school with meetings. You know what I'm saying you can replace. You still got training, but you can replace all that extra hours that you got to do nothing to.
Speaker 2:Now you're doing something for recovery because you got to make sure that your body's in top shape. Your body's a temple, so you got to take care of them. If you don't take it, it's just going to break down on you. With you playing in the NFL, it's 100% risk factor that you're going to get injured somehow. Some way you just got to find a way to switch your mindset to just say fuck it. You know what I'm saying, Because it's going to suck regardless. You might as well just know that it's going to suck, but in the end of it, if you can do the hard stuff without really any complaints, just think of how many breaks that you're going to have along the way Because at the end, like you, the fruit of your labor later on, you don't reap it right now. If you want to sow them seeds, you got to sow them seeds right now. It's going to be trash, but you're going to reap it later on. That's really bad. So that's really bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. The idea that there's not going to be instant gratification, you have to play the long game to a certain degree and just do all the little things throughout the day that helps to get you there so you can reap the benefits later, is what I'm hearing. Yeah, and you've kind of always been this way. You mind if I tell you another fun story about you? I just had to tell people People have to hear their story.
Speaker 1:Man, when I came into your house for us to visit and meet your family after your official visit, to kind of make sure that there wasn't any questions and these type of things we came in pretty late. It was like the meeting didn't start until, like I think, 9.15 at night or something like that, because that was when everybody can be there, right? Yeah, anyway, we're going, your sister's there, mom and dad are there and we're having a conversation. Like 30, 45 minutes into the conversation we're all good. You're like hey, coach, good night. I got to go to bed.
Speaker 1:And I'm like what, right in the middle of this meeting, like we're there to, like you know, have this conversation with you and your family, and you're like Nope, got to go to bed, I got to get my eight hours of sleep, got to test tomorrow, and you just said, said good night. Walk down the hall and coach Baldwin was like, yeah, that's why he's going to be great, that's why he's going to be great. You already had that natural mindset of that. This is going to take sacrifice. This is going to take, you know, a level of intention and sacrifice. So that was already in you. You know we just you continuously have developed that over time. You know.
Speaker 2:I mean that sacrifice. I owe all that to my parents because I see them every day. What they're doing, you know what I'm saying. So it's like I got to find a way is and it's the Nigerian culture to take care of your parents when they're getting older. You feel me?
Speaker 2:So I was like I had an opportunity here, because if I don't go to NFL, I know I'm going to succeed in something because of all the things that I learned along the way, because I put it into work, you know, and I'm a man of faith. So I'm like if this isn't for me, then there's something better coming, because I know God has already prepared the way. You know, because of that I'm always, I'm kind of positive in that way, but it's not like a false optimism, if that makes sense. It's like working and it's like, if it's not going to be, this is going to be something better, because, like I'm in my mind and my body for whatever it is going to be. So they're like work without, or prayer without work doesn't really work, like it's not a thing. So you got to work for the prayer to really come alive, because you're not going to be if you're not ready for the blessing.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. So with that, like with that in mind, I just kind of watched my parents and all the things that they did. So that's one of the reasons I really didn't complain, because I'm like I got to find a way to show them that the work that they put in is really worth it. You know what I'm saying, that they sowed the good seeds and I'm the good fruit that they're gonna get from it, you know. So that's really one of the reasons, because I'm trying to make sure that they don't like you seen how we were living, you know. So I was like this can't be it, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there was motivation that lies beyond just the desire to play ball. You were. There was a desire to you know, to put food on the table for your family and to provide a better life. I love this idea that without the work, the prayer doesn't work. Man, is that how you said it? Is that that's beautiful man? That's beautiful.
Speaker 2:I think it's in a Bible actually. I just I heard it somewhere. I'm like man, it makes so much sense because so many people pray and just sit there waiting for it. I'm like bro, you can't pray and not work, because then you ready for said blessing that is already in store for you. You have to work that way when you receive the blessing, you'll know where it comes from, and then that way it keeps you humble. You know, that's what I look at.
Speaker 1:And it keeps you working, it keeps you staying on the path. Yeah, so how does that play in on a daily basis for you? You know I remember you being a man of faith. You know all the way back, but it seems, as I've watched your journey unfold, it seems like that has strengthened in you. It seems like that has become even more present and more upfront for you. Is that accurate to think that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. In the shortest way to say it, in this world I just feel with chaos and troubles and everywhere. That's the one place that I find peace. It's in the Bible, like whenever I'm like deep in prayer. That's the one place that I'm just like bro, I can really be myself and like be humble and be appreciative of everything that I got, and the more I dove into it, the more I wanted to do what the word says. You know, it's still a struggle nowadays with this world that's like full of, like distractions and all that, but it's just one step at a time, honestly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, to practice your faith, to lean into that faith and then to try to go live it. Yeah, I mean, that's what it is to go live it. That's beautiful. That's something I did not have in my previous life when I say previous life, the life that you and I shared before when I was coaching you know, I've gone through quite a transformation in the last decade or so and have found that and wow.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. You're a little bit more humble now. We'll say that You're a lot more humble. I've seen you're a lot more focused. You know I'm just like, okay, yeah, that's cool, that's real motivation, and I know it's helping your kids too, because I've seen a couple of things that you're posting. I'm like, yeah, you're kind of like just bringing them in the right way that they're supposed to go. You know what I'm saying, because nowadays there's not a lot of people that can really raise men the way that they're supposed to be men. And I see you definitely going out with your kids, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that, samson.
Speaker 1:You know I've found a nice middle ground and I'm constantly working to find that middle ground between the intensity that once that you experienced right and being able then also to have and then to think that the faith piece was huge for me, allowed for me to find that middle, to be grounded and centered and called, but yet still be able to switch it on when a situation, or like to teach my kids, man, there's a beast inside of you, man, and you have to be learn how to tap into that.
Speaker 1:So that's really finding that middle ground has been a journey. It's been a journey, but I've been increasingly encouraging people, when they aren't feeling like they're reaching their potential, to explore their faith, to be able to help them, guide them towards their potential. And I believe that we are. We're gonna have a much shorter ceiling if we're not making that a part of our training. When I say training, that means sleep, nutrition, hydration, all the things right, physical training, prayer. All of it is training, in my opinion, because you're working on yourself to become a better version of you, so you're able to, like you said, be in that place to be able to receive. So just yeah.
Speaker 2:The main question is what I've seen nowadays, unfortunately, is that people are always working on themselves, focused on themselves to be a better version of themselves. But what are you trying to do all that for? You know what I'm saying, because I did it for my family. You know what I'm saying. But a lot of people nowadays, unfortunately, there's not like a greater good that they're doing it for, they're doing it just to help themselves, and that's probably why a lot of people fall short, because if you find something that's bigger than yourself, then that's an extra motivation just to like, really like, really like, get down and get centered and like just get stronger in general, because that's the greatest thing is to be able to help others you know, yeah, I get more I get.
Speaker 2:I'm happier helping others than helping myself. You feel me Like. Of course I want to be successful and stuff like that, but I know I can't be successful with myself If I don't bring people with me. It's just not. What am I doing it for? You know, because I have a beautiful house and I'm just like and I was thinking to myself one day, I'm like, damn, I'm here with myself. I should probably put some kids in this house because it wouldn't make sense to live in this fat crib by myself. It's just, that's just not it, you know. Yeah, yeah, I know, I mean there's.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that insight, Samson, that there's a lot of talk about personal development, but why? Right, and there has to be that either a connection to a higher power or a very clear mission or purpose in life that we're leading towards some sort of an impact right, which is for me it's. You know, I have a nine and 11 year old daughter and a son, and my nucleus of my family comes first and to support them, to create the best environment for them to thrive and to know that you know, for them to be able to explore who they want to become. You know, that's what I mean. You'd be amazed how little I even watch or expose my kids to, even football, because I want them. If he finds football, if my son finds football, I want him to find football right, I want him to explore and he picks up art, riding horses and drawing and all these other things, naturally because I'm not influencing him one way or the other. So that really becomes my number one motivating factor.
Speaker 1:And then, wanting to give back to anybody who's ever battled or struggled, you know, mentally and emotionally, I feel a calling to try to help people to understand how to deliberate themselves. For me sort of mental, emotional struggle, you know. But I love that man. It's like just really like what's driving or what's the motivating factors behind our everyday actions, right, and when you get clear about that, then it becomes easier to be disciplined, like I just feel like disciplined. Yeah, you hear this a lot. This is something the question I had for you, samson, and then we'll kind of wrap it up with maybe a few pieces of advice for any young ones. But you know, do you feel like you have to really focus on being disciplined, or are you so connected to why you're doing what you're doing so that the discipline kind of follows it? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:The discipline definitely follows it, because there's days I mean, people say discipline is doing it when you don't want to and all that. I'm like I get it, but it's like I'm an adult man if I don't wanna do it, I'm not gonna do it. Yeah, like, don't try to say discipline is doing it when you don't feel like doing it, like you enjoy doing it. I'm like bro, now it sucks regardless, though, but guess what? People got mouse? I got mouse to feed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's really that you know, if I don't perform, if I don't do my job, you lose it all. You feel me, so I got mouse to feed. So if I wanna choose a lazy day, I'm gonna have a lazy day, trust me. You know what I mean. But when it's time to work, it's time to cut everything off and just go to work. Yeah, it's not really about this one. It's like you have something greater than that to focus on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I believe it disappointed. Something that just follows clarity, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you got a goal. If you got a goal, then you don't really, because I don't like how people just be using discipline just to feel that they're working hard. I'm just like. Everybody works hard. It's about who it is. You know what I'm saying and why are they doing it? Because you'll see a difference. If you're doing it just for yourself, you're probably not gonna achieve all the things that you wanna achieve, which we find something else is greater than you. Are you trying to reach that goal?
Speaker 1:You might not reach it, but you'll definitely be better than you were you know, yeah, and, like you said in the very beginning, it might be something better that God has in store for you, exactly, yeah, yeah, so it may not reach that goal, but who you become in the process, and then the impact that you make and then what that leads you to like, if you have your eyes on something greater than yourself, or taking your eyes off yourself, place them on others, that's gonna lead you down a better path of self-development let's call it self-improvement than otherwise. Yeah, I love that. So a lot of nuggets here that are things that I'm I personally love to go back and reflect upon. But I want you to give any young ones out there a piece of advice. So maybe a high school kid who's trying to get to college? Or think about a collegiate athlete who's really aspiring to play at the next level. What's the thing or two that comes to your mind and a piece of advice that you'd give that young one.
Speaker 2:I don't know about high school kid, because my only motivation in high school was just to find a place to get a scholarship, cause I was like I gotta go to college but I'm, my family can't afford it. So I just gotta find a place to get a scholarship. And if you really believe in yourself that much, then you know you can walk on and do something. Why not go do it, you feel me, cause your life is short, you know. So you just gotta put your back forward to everything. And then for a college athlete, it's like you gotta well, this is for both of them but you gotta realize that, like in the early age, that you gotta take a hard road, and not the hard road of like you're gonna put yourself in a predicament that's just gonna make life terrible for you.
Speaker 2:I mean like the hard road of like right and wrong, choose the right way. You feel me, the wrong way might be easier, but the right really leads you to where you're supposed to go, kind of like how it says in the Bible that to get to heaven is a very narrow road. You know, and the more I've been like just working and everything, I've realized that I'm choosing the harder way. You know, I could have done a whole bunch of things to make sure that my body isn't beat up throughout the years and stuff, but it's like no, I'd rather go this road, because I know that the fruits will come later, you know. So you just gotta find a way to go through the hard road and keep your head up while doing it.
Speaker 1:I almost hear an aspect of seeking challenges to reap the benefit later. Right, you know one of the things that you'll see it coming out here shortly. Actually, I was gonna talk to you about this. I was gonna share it with you offline, but I'll mention it here, since we're in this conversation and you brought that up.
Speaker 1:We have a saying in our family right, tell my son it's hard.
Speaker 1:And he says dot dot, dot, good, right, like it's hard, good, he actually is publishing a book.
Speaker 1:We're publishing a book that my son wrote, called, said we can, called we Can Do Hard Things. And it's this principle and this idea that we need to be willing to lean in and seek challenges before the challenge is gonna find me, and so that aspect of and that's right versus wrong, that's making the choices, that's not popular, that's being kind of, you know, standing out from the crowd and being uncommon, that's, you know, doing the things that maybe, like I said, is not gonna win the popularity contest but is going to pay off in the long run, right, yeah, yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time and I know you're a busy man, I know you're with family, so I'm not gonna hold you up to here too much longer. I just appreciate you so much and it's been just an absolute blast to watch, to watch your journey and your career. Like I told you, I don't watch much football, but anymore I just because I don't watch a lot of football.
Speaker 1:I don't have TV in my home, so my family and I we, like I said, we find ways to explore hobbies and different things, but I do check it out. I do watch games when it's a big one for you, or I do check scores and box scores and your numbers, the one that I always go to first. I always make sure I'm following your career and just seeing how you're doing, checking up on you, and so it's just been a blast to watch, man, everything unfold for you and just congrats again on another great year and the best of luck, man, going forward. Just gonna continue to support you and love you and just appreciate everything about your man. Yes, sir, appreciate you too.
